Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

facedown

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El Curiouso

Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« on: June 10, 2010, 04:39:23 PM »

I also read an article about "real repentance" on the internet and it had so many requirements for real repentance that I feel like
really getting saved is totally hard.

The author listed various points which can make you fail to get saved. I do not think if I fulfilled all these requirements when I wanted to get saved or if I even fulfill them all NOW! Sad

-for example if the seeking person is only shamed of specific sins and does not realize that his behavior in general is sinful then this hinders getting saved. Judas felt guilty for betraying Jesus but he didnt get saved.

-the seeking person is still proud of a few things which she thinks she did well in her life

-the seeking person sees sin as disease and doesnt feel responsible for sinning

-the seeker excuses sins

-rejecting Jesus is seen as only sin. repentance has to include all sins and not just rejecting Jesus

-the seeker does not repent for invisible sins (thoughts)

-the seeker feels little regret and instead only seeks blessings from God

-the seeker repents out of fear of judgement and repenting is simply an act of desperation

-the repentance of the seeker is only a result of feeling guilty for having done a mistake but it
is only a pseudo-repentance. (example: people in prison who accept Jesus and seem to repent and later on
mock what they did and reject Jesus)

-the person who repents does not feel guilty towards God but towards men who she hurt

-the seeker is not moved by causing Jesus suffering. every seeker must feel bad for making Jesus suffer.

-the seeker wants to maintain and hold on to a few sins and not give them all up

-a new life is not really the highest wish of the seeker

-the seeker does not accept the complete Lordship of Jesus, repentance means that rebellion ends and that you become obedient to God.


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Charles H. Spurgeon: "The craving to alter the Word of God is accursed. This is the crime of the present day. The Lord preserve us from it."

David

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Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 08:00:06 PM »

Man puts heavy burdens on the backs of others. Only one requirement. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

David


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facedown

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El Curiouso

Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 04:37:49 AM »

Do you think one only has to believe and not even feel sorry for the sins which were committed?

All these required points unsettle me. How can one tell if the other person which prays such a prayer really fulfills all of them? Then you would have to lead hour long interviews to find out what this person thinks and if she meets all requirements.

Or lets says you want to lead a murderer to Jesus then the 1 sin which will be on his mind will be the murder because it is the worst sin which he has done. And according to the guy who came up with those requirements a murderer who wants to get saved and only feels sorry for the murder in this moment cannot get saved cause he is too focused on this 1 sin and not on being a sinner in general. I think this is somehow a bit ridiculous. I think it is normal that one focuses on those sins which are most prominent in the mind and which are also the heaviest.


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DennisS

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Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 06:37:58 PM »

I think there is a big difference between "getting saved" and "being saved". Getting has a transactional feel, much like getting a shirt or a tan. Being is more of an ongoing thing.

However, both are helpful, as "Justification" is the event, and "Sanctification" is the ongoing process of cleaning up our lives.

"Repent and believe!" Belief is part of Justification. It is only a portion though, as the real work has already been accomplished. It seems that we too often only think of our part, when really we ought to realize that salvation is accomplished by our God. We even throw around phrases such as, "I found Jesus", or "when I first believed" (with emphasis on "I"). Was Jesus lost that we could find him? Was the Holy Spirit not active in drawing us to the love of our God? Perhaps these are petty, as people actually understand what is being said. But I think we communicate poorly when we use shortcut language that confuses others.

In regard to "real repentance", the presence of the word "real" is problematic. It suggests that someone is trying to judge and measure. We all have work still to do in the area of repentance. We all still fall short of the glory of God.

I have a good friend who for most of his life cooked meth. But three years ago he repented. First, he had time to think about his priorities, as he was in jail. That's where I first met him. He knew that what he was doing was wrong, but he finally got to the point where he actually wanted to change. He had a son in kindergarten, and wanted to be more of a father to him than he had to his previous kids. He wanted to get clean. He put a plan in motion, including having people to whom he would be accountable - who would ask the tough questions.

He tells of the incredible weight that left him, including not a few tears, when he was able to confess and admit what he had been doing - to even his mother. In most cases people knew, but they just didn't talk about it.

He has put that chapter behind him and his life is soooo different now. He is getting married in the fall. He has custody of his son. He is taking care of his health. But the thing that impresses me is how he continues to go faithfully to NA, and has been a real force in helping others to break their addictions. He hosts Bible studies in his home.

He has repented - he has dropped his burden, and empowered by the love of God, the salvation offered through the work of Christ, and heeding the call and work of the Holy Spirit, he has done a 180 degree turn - moving away from drugs. He used to only go out after dark, but now he is active during the day - taking his son fishing, camping, and enjoying life in a way he couldn't before.

Some have doubted his conversion, his truly turning away from drugs (repenting), etc. But he has come to the point where he realizes that he doesn't have to prove it to anyone but Jesus. If people will observe him, then they will see the change in the messages on his t-shirts, that he doesn't hang out with the old crowd where temptation lurks, and that he has a joy and a high from living into this new life. I want to throw water on him and hug him - he is born again. This doesn't mean everything in his life is perfect - doesn't mean he has made all the changes that the Holy Spirit is tugging upon him - but he is headed in the right direction in his life, trying to clean it up for the glory of God, taking one step at a time.

The article from which you got the information (but of which you didn't give credit with a link), could be helpful in getting people to feel the weight of their sinfulness and get going in the right direction. It seems a little heavy-handed and petty, and perhaps puts the emphasis in the wrong place. But I can see some merit in moving people out of their denial and comfort zone, and away from their sinfulness.


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facedown

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El Curiouso

Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2010, 05:22:17 PM »

The article wasn't in English so providing a link would be futile.

Anyway, I just don't see where in the bible it says that seekers have to be confronted with a whole checklist of things they have to do even BEFORE they can get saved.
To me this sounds ridiculous. They expect the persons to turn away from sin and to repent from sin in order to get saved. How is this supposed to be possible when the person isn't even born again yet?

I don't think I can agree with this kind of thinking. I listened to some good old fundamental baptists preaching and I don't know if all fundamental baptists believe the same but those I listened to do not seem to believe this stuff that you gotta get better in order to get saved.
Making yourself presentable to God in order to get saved is trying to save yourself.

I also cannot find verses in the epistles where Paul or others said something like "if you want to get saved you have to do this and that and this and that and no longer do this and that".

Paul said believe and you shall be saved. Then where do preachers take the right to create lists full of requirements like "you gotta be deeply sorry for making Jesus suffer" or "you gotta be sorry towards God and not towards men"?
I am not saying those things are bad but making them a requirement to get saved does not seem right to me and also not biblical.

I do not know who said it but I once heard a saying like "I wouldn't put one tear between a person and Jesus" meaning that if a person wants to get saved then she simply shall believe and not be forced to go through anything else like crying and moaning or confessing and so on.


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DennisS

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Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2010, 06:41:44 PM »

Contrition isn't a bad thing at all - being sorry for what you have done. When a child has done something to hurt another, shouldn't they be made to realize the other has been hurt, and then to apologize? Isn't this the first step in reconciliation? If you don't own up to having done wrong, then why would you seek to change?

To repent is to change - to turn away from sin - from harming the other (physical, emotional, spiritual). The idea is fully covered in the Great Commandment - to love God and neighbor.

Jesus said, "repent and believe the Good News."

Some people need their nose rubbed in their sin before they will admit it is wrong, and potentially turn from it. We try to justify just about anything we want - denying any harm in it. I can see how some are going to need an emotional kick-in-the-pants to change their ways.

I want to remind you that the Great Commission also has these words: "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you." Those things stated in the "imperative" are certainly commands, and there are plenty of them from the mouth of Jesus. For starters, consider the Sermon on the Mount (Mt. 5-7).

You are salt... you are light (not hidden under a bushel)... everyone being angry with a brother will be subject to judgment... first be reconciled to your brother and then bring your gift to the altar... everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart... whoever hits you on the right cheek, turn to him also the other... to the one wishing to sue you and take your shirt - give to him also your coat, and whoever will force you one mile - go with him two... I say to you love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you... give your alms in secret... do not pray as the hypocrites... if you do not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses... do not store up treasures on earth... no one is able to serve two masters... do not be anxious about your life... do not judge, lest you be judged... ask and it will be given, seek and you will find... enter through the narrow gate... beware of false prophets... everyone hearing these words but not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon sand (resulting in a mega fall)...

These are not things placed as a barrier between a person and their seeking faith. Justification (the salvation event) generally precedes sanctification. But they are close enough that they overlap somewhat. God loves us too much to have us continue to live in sin. Faith doesn't mean just mental agreement. Faith ought to stir our hearts such that we are led out of sin - realizing that God has saved us.

I can see that the author of the post intends to stir hearts toward deeper repentance. I can see that it just might make a difference to some - that it just might get them to take action, to go the extra mile rather than sit on their butt, continuing to daily stop at, and be served at, the den of sin.

Jesus did say to repent (do a 180 turn) and believe. Jesus did set higher standards, and expected that they be taught and lived out. Salvation is an event (justification) and an ongoing process (sanctification) - thus we are "being saved". Lord, I believe (justification), help my unbelief (draw me closer - sanctification).


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facedown

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El Curiouso

Re: Real repentance? Did you meet all these requirements?

« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 12:21:50 PM »

I dont know what to think about those things Jesus said.
Like turning the cheek, does this mean Jesus doesnt allow a christian who is being attack by a murderer to defend himself?
Or what about if somebody wants your shirt stuff, does this mean if somebody comes along and threatens you to give him your money that you simply have to comply and also give him your watch and your car keys?
Some christians really interpret it this way but to me this makes no sense and it is also not possible. Imagine somebody comes to you every day stealing all your money then you'll soon have a problem. Huh?